Q You and John immediately began playing benefits for various causes along the East Coast. Ann Arbor, at the Apollo, at Madison Square Garden. You were on the Jerry Lewis Telethon. Why, at this point in your lives, were you so committed to your roles as leaders and activists? You didn't have to be.

A Well when we came to New York City, right away, we started to get busy, busy that way, you know, politically or whatever you call it. But I'd like to remind you that we started with Two Virgins, Bed-In -- all that was all there in England. So it was like a tradition already by then. It's the family tradition of John and Yoko. And so we just went on doing things. But, of course, in America, there's a lot of like TV exposure and charity shows, etcetera, etcetera. It's bigger. The media's bigger. And so that's what reflects in that New York City Disc 2. And I think it's very interesting because it's different from Disc 1, the Ascot, that kind of life. We were getting into that media life.

Q The album that you and John did Sometime In New York City, even John said it was a time when he thought his music became almost a form of journalism. Does that music from the period hold up for you?

A Sure. A lot of it, the music in New York City, the kind of political stuff and it was getting to be like we're just sending it out like newspaper articles. I think that was kind of one way of expressing art. And very much like Fluxus or -- the later sort of artists, you know, contemporary artists who is always involving politics or politics is part of the expression, very much so. And that's what was going on.

Q And then, political battles landed right on your doorstep in terms of the immigration battle. How did the immigration battle, John's struggle to stay in America - how did that affect your relationship and your music -- and John's music?

A When the United States' government hit us with the immigration case, it was frightening. It was totally scary. But we felt that justice would prevail. And it took a long time, but it did. And we kept doing things while that was going on. I'm looking at all these video of Madison Square Garden where we're singing, you know, Give Peace a Chance and all that, right in the middle of the time when they were trying to kick us out. I mean, we had gall or nerve or whatever. But we felt that we were doing the right thing. And I think that was fine.

Q Another thing that John and Yoko did during this time period was record a song called Happy Xmas, which is on The John Lennon Anthology in a slightly different version. You tell the story in the book, but (tell) just a little bit about the writing and recording of Happy Xmas, because it's turned out to be one of the biggest songs of both of your careers.

A It's true that Happy Xmas is really very big now. But at the time that we wrote Happy Xmas -- it was like just after we wrote Happy Xmas, and this was like over breakfast in a hotel room. And we were just -- well, you can't write a song together unless you're really like feeling good about each other. We just wrote it. And then we had a big fight. Big argument. And so then we forgot about the song. And then it was getting to be like November. You know, Christmas is approaching. And then suddenly John remembered the song. He said, "What happened to Happy Xmas? We have to put it out." And we put it out. But, of course, it bombed because it was too near Christmas and didn't have the time to -- the record company didn't have the time to really put it in the right slot and all that. But when we wrote it, John -- just like when he wrote Imagine, he said, "It's going to be big." You know, that instinct. And John was saying, "Happy Xmas is going to be really big. It's going to bigger than White Christmas." And I was laughing. But I don't think it's big as White Christmas yet, but it's kind of big for our generation, in a way, I think.

Q Some of the sweetest moments on The John Lennon Anthology are John's versions of the songs that he wrote for Ringo, like I'm the Greatest, Only You.

A Well, he did a guide vocal for that, but it was not his song.

Q Right. And there was one -- oh, Goodnight Vienna. Would you say that John's relationship with Ringo was different than with the other Beatles?

A Well, John did (a) guide vocal for Only You, which was not his song, but he did a great one, a great vocal, and also Goodnight Vienna and I'm the Greatest. He wrote those songs for Ringo. Especially I'm the Greatest, you notice that he was writing for Ringo and so he was more, kind of, relaxed about certain lines, you know, that he would never write for himself kind of thing. And I think they're lovely songs. I think that John was always caring about Ringo and always making sure that Ringo would be all right. So there's a lot of love there.

Q Let's move on to the third disc, which is called The Lost Weekend. It was so hard for many of us to understand when John Lennon and Yoko Ono separated. Two people who loved each other so much and they were suddenly apart. When you separated, did you feel that someday you and John would eventually be reunited?

A I don't know. I felt -- personally, I felt, oh, the fans are going to love this, you know, because they hated the fact that we were together. I was the dragon lady, remember? But when we came back together again, surprise, surprise, the fans were all very happy that we came back together again. We were like Daddy and Mommy. Oh, they came back together. Good. You know, that kind of thing. So the fans were changing a little, maybe, I don't know, in the course of years. But, yeah, we separated and there was a good reason for it. And I think that it was the best move that I/we made.

Q Did The Lost Weekend ultimately strengthen your relationship?

A The Lost Weekend ultimately strengthened our relationship, totally, but I wasn't sure that we were going to stay together or not. I really thought that if I said, "Okay. Go to L.A., see you later." I thought that maybe that would be the end. But I had to take that chance, because, well, it's just I had to take that chance, that's all.

Q And then you started seeing newspaper reports of John having some evenings out where things got out of control.

A Yeah, things were getting out of control. But that's when people said things like -- you know, when he was in L.A., things were getting a bit out of control. And people out there, the music people, they would call me and say, "Come and pick him up," something like that. And I'm saying, "Well, all this time, you thought that you wanted me to be out of it, so why don't you just take care of him." And it was really strange, you know. I think that's when they said -- they realized actually - it wasn't so bad that I was around. Well, you know, it was a very, very difficult scene. So it went the other way, I thought I could survive, too. I don't know. It was just that kind of thing. And then we came back and it was great. But also, even during The Lost Weekend, we weren't totally separated. And to the point that he gave me credit to Walls and Bridges as Plastic Ono Band kind of thing. He still used the Plastic Ono Band kind of label, just because he was picking my brain, still, I suppose. You know, it's that kind of thing.

Q And during that period was when John was in L.A. recording the Rock And Roll sessions with Phil Spector. And on The John Lennon Anthology, Yoko, you've included some very revealing studio chatter between John and Mr. Phil Spector --

A Yes, I included some raw stuff that was going on in the studio between Phil Spector and John Lennon. The two geniuses. I told John, when John was saying, "I think I'm going to go into the studio with Phil Spector," I said -- not because I had anything against Phil, but I said, "Don't do it." And later, he said, "Well, you were right." Because, the two geniuses, they were so big-headed and everything, you know. And when we did Imagine, I was there. So I was like the kind of -- I don't know, calming quality, maybe. I don't know. Maybe I wasn't that calming quality, but there's a difference, you know. And here John and Phil, I didn't think it was going to go well. But there's a big legend -- no myth, about how terrible it was. And when you listen to it, Phil was very, kind of, sensitive. John was sensitive, too. It's just two very sensitive, talented people didn't know how to, sort of like, get on with the thing. And I thought it was history. I thought it was a piece of very important history there. So I wanted to put that in there.

Q You weren't worried that Phil would be offended by that?

A I think there (was) really bad talk about that period and how arrogant Phil was or something like that. This shows that maybe John was being a kid and Phil was trying to kind of calm him down or something. So it shows that -- it just gives more credit to Phil, I think, than anything else.

Q That segment of The John Lennon Anthology and all the spoken bits throughout the four discs, they show a different side of John than we've ever seen. No one's ever shown it to us before. And it almost demystifies John in some sense.

A I wasn't trying to demystify John in these four discs. Also, you know, it's damn if you will, damn if you don't. I'm trying to sort of show John in a kind of four-dimensional way. This is John, instead of, okay, just let's show the best foot forward kind of thing. And I was always doing that. I was never trying to show John just in the best foot forward kind of situation. But a lot of people are saying, "Oh, she wants to depict him as a saint." So I get flack for that and now I'm going to get flack for demystifying John? I think he was human. But also, I think he was incredibly talented. I mean, he was a genius. And you see that, even when he's doing these very, sort of like, black humor stuff. Off the cuff. And he comes up with it, it's not just a regular black humor. It's brilliant, brilliant. You couldn't do that. Nobody could do that. And that's what is so unique about John. And I wanted people to see that, too. But the only time that -- well, the only thing that I didn't want to do was to put some musically tacky stuff in there, musically. Meaning, the sound quality was so bad that you have to listen to it because it's scratchy and everything and just sort of, "oh, well, this is John Lennon, so I'm going to listen to it." That kind of fan stuff. I don't want that. John was a musician, John was an artist. And I think that John would have liked the fact that whether it was a scathing remark or whether it was a black humor song, something that was musically tops. And that's what I aimed for. So if there was a track that was kind of too foggy to listen to or something like that, yes, we cleaned it. We made sure to clean it up so it sounds good. That was my aim. To show John at his best, but not by kind of suppressing the sides that maybe might offend people. You know, if I'm going to offend people, I'm going to offend people just by putting a song with love in it. Like, was he that soppy or something like that. You don't know what is going to offend people.

Q It's thought of that Thanksgiving 1974 was the end of The Lost Weekend, that you and John met backstage when John joined Elton John in concert at Madison Square Garden. First of all, you and John had been talking throughout this whole period, had you not?

A Yes, and also, he visited me to the point that I said, "Okay. I still got one room for you." And I decorated one room for him where he can just -- when he comes, he can just be alone there or something like that, as well. And so it wasn't like we were strangers. But that night, something clicked because maybe I was vulnerable. I mean, whenever John would come to visit me or something like that, I was kind of on guard. Let's not make this into coming back together again kind of thing, you know. But that night, I saw John on the stage and I'm crying. I'm crying like crazy because he looked so lonely out there. And so I'm going backstage thinking about that. And then he just looked at me and I looked at him. I was so open, you know. There was no -- no like being guarded. I couldn't. So that's when it clicked, I think. It was hard not to sort of like -- well, I was just politely smiling, hoping that he would think that it's just a kind of diplomatic smile that you give when two people -- old friends meet. But we couldn't help it. It was more than that.

Q Yoko, you and John made Elton John Sean's godfather. Does Elton still keep up with Sean?

A Well, yes. We respected Elton a lot and we felt that Elton John would be a very good godfather to Sean. But, you know, just like there are many different kinds of fathers, you know, Elton has a different way of being a godfather, I suppose. And I don't think he communicates that much with Sean. But that's all right. I mean, when they communicate, they will. These are all very strange people, you have to understand. Talented, but strange. Let's put it that way. And, you know, you have to -- you have to allow them to be.

Q Yoko, let's move on to the fourth disc Dakota.

A Fourth disc, Dakota. Okay.

Q Between 1975 and 1980, most John Lennon fans thought that he was not making any music. But judging from some of the recordings on The John Lennon Anthology and some that we heard on the Lost Lennon Tapes radio show, it seems that he was making music, he just stopped sharing it.

A Well, I think it was a very, kind of, fruitful years in Dakota. You know, talk about Dakota days as if it was like the lost days. But no, it wasn't. It's just that he wasn't going out in public and saying things or doing a concert or something like that. So, you know, people just think about -- in terms of what they saw. So they didn't see very much of us. So that's that. But -- Skywriting By Word Of Mouth he was writing that, during the Dakota days. And he was really starting to get great ideas around '79. But all the songs like Tennessee and all that, he was writing all that. But it wasn't good enough to just go into the studio and make an album or something like that. Several songs -- well, that's not good enough. You have to have a whole album full of songs. But also, most of those songs were written because we were thinking of making a musical. And it was supposed to be called, guess what?: (Giggles) Ballad of John and Yoko. And John had this great idea, scene by scene, you know. "Oh, this should be like this and this should be like this. And then we play Two Virgins" and this that. The whole thing. He had it like that. And, of course, I contributed a little, but it was basically his idea of the musical. And then I wrote some songs for it and he wrote some songs for it. So those are the songs you're thinking of.

Q So was it a busy period at the Dakota, the public just wasn't seeing the fruits of it yet?

A Well, eventually we said, "Okay. These are not correct for a record -- these are not for a record, but these can be for the musical." So, you know, it was getting like maybe we wanted to do a musical. That's what we were thinking.

Q The first music that we all heard from the Dakota days was the album Double Fantasy. And for the most part, it was a pretty blissful, peaceful representation of those times. But at the same time, we find out now, listening to The John Lennon Anthology there were songs like Serve Yourself being written. Do you think that John would have shown his darker side after, say, Milk and Honey?

A Maybe, he might have. I mean, that's just guesswork. And I don't want to do that. But my feeling was, the last thing that we spoke about, that we spoke to each other, John was saying that when we were recording, Walking On Thin Ice, he said, "This is the direction." Meaning, that there was that kind of song part and there's a lot of, you know, poetry speaking part kind of thing with music underneath it and all that. And he just wanted to go into that direction. And he was very inspired and excited about that. Yeah, we would have gone that way, maybe.

Q On The John Lennon Anthology, there's a version of I'm Losing You with Cheap Trick. Now, how did that collaboration happen and why wasn't it released on Double Fantasy?

A Well, when he wrote I'm Losing You, he felt that he had to kind of get some feel for it to do something about it in terms of how it can be presented, how it can be executed, the song itself. And I think Jack Douglas brought Cheap Trick people in. And they kind of inspired John. And so it was good that they inspired John to sort of finally decide how it should be. But then when it was time to record, he wanted to record with the group that was doing Double Fantasy, which was the logical. You know, that sort of like as a unified feeling. So that's what he did. But what he did with I'm Losing You in the catalogue, meaning, in Double Fantasy, the arrangement and all that, it was very close to what John did with Cheap Trick. So it was a very, kind of, positive, constructive rehearsal time they had.

Q It is nice to hear it now, though, in this version. It leans more towards Cold Turkey. I mean, it's very raw.

A Well, when you just leave John alone and let him be himself, that's it. You know, that's what comes out of him. He was a very energetic person. And I'm Losing You shows that, especially this rehearsal track, because when you leave John during the rehearsal, then that's John. That's how he comes out. And then afterwards, he has to sing many, many times to make it -- you know, like with Phil Spector saying, "Wait, wait, wait, we have to stop because we have to change the tapes" or something like that. And then he keeps singing for the sake of the musicians, until the musicians get it or something. So then, by then, it's like a little more calmer John, you know. And also, in the production, you have to really kind of go over the mix, etcetera, etcetera. So the original John's energy that just sprouted out like that, that's more refined then, you see. So that's what's good about this box in the sense that I feel that the songs which are presented in this box are the real John in that sense. Before, it was manipulated by the tracks and everything.

Q Another glimpse of the real John on the box, what we talked about earlier, some of the demos. There's some on the Dakota disc that were recorded in Bermuda. There's others that were done in the Dakota, like Life Begins at Forty was recorded in the Dakota. Where was he in the building and where were you? I'm trying to get a sense. It's such a big building. Was he off in another room and you didn't know he was doing this or did he say, "Mother, I'm going to cut some tracks and I'll be in Studio One"? Do you remember any of that?

A The guy was always there. For instance, Grow Old With Me, when you listen to it, some people might notice it, but I'm singing together with him. But I don't want to sing out loud, so I'm just kind of very quietly singing. And it's still there, because I think they couldn't get it out or something. But it's that kind of thing. I was there. And just like when John was doing the drawings. He was just doing a drawing and I'm doing something else. He would say, "Look at this, look at this." Or, "I can't share this. This is no good." And he just throws it away in the waste basket. But songs, too, he couldn't help if he's playing and -- when it's good, it's good. And he gets very excited. So, of course, I'm there to say, "That's great" or whatever.

 

Jody and Yoko's first meeting, The Dakota, 1992

Q Since those demos weren't really intended to be heard by many people, I know this is guesswork, but do you think he would mind us listening to them now?

A That's why I say, unless it is something that is good quality, I think John would have minded the fact that I'm putting out stuff that he did it just personally in his own room, something like that. That's why I was very careful about the music quality, the musical quality, the sound quality of all these songs. And how he's singing it. You know, if it was something that would be beneath him, I wouldn't put it out.

Q The Beatles used a couple of John's demos to make full-fledged songs out of Free as a Bird and Real Love. I guess you thought John would have approved of giving the demos to the Beatles to record?

A I didn't think that way. I thought that now that John is not here and he can't do a concert and sing his songs and it was very important that John's songs will keep being out there. So I use all medias. For instance, some people were very upset that I used his song as a commercial. Now, I come from the age of using all different media to express art, like Fluxus or media as a message or whatever you call it. So it's good to use all different medias to keep John's songs out there. And I thought the Beatles doing this to make a good Beatle track out of John's song, I thought that would show this song in the best light and to the widest audience, which John would have loved.

Q The Beatles recorded Free as a Bird and Real Love, from a couple of demos that you gave them. Were those the only demos you gave the Beatles or did they have other songs to choose from?

A Out of respect for them, out of respect for the Beatles, when I gave Free as a Bird and Real Love possible songs that they could work with, I gave two more songs that went with it. But they chose those. And I thought that they would.

Q Another song of John's that was unfinished, but is now finished somewhat on The John Lennon Anthology is Grow Old With Me. And you had Beatles' producer George Martin do some work on that. Tell me about that.

A Well, I thought John would have liked the idea that George Martin participated in this Anthology. And I thought that was a very important thing to try. And George was very sweet about it and he did it. And I think it's great.

Q At the end of The John Lennon Anthology, there's a section called Something More, spoken-word bits, like The Great Wok and several satirical jabs at Bob Dylan and George Harrison. Did you hesitate to release the satires about Bob and George for fear someone might be offended?

A Well, you see, about the Something More on Disc 4, and they're satirical, some black humor as well. But, you know, you're listening to something like that every night on late night shows on TV. Jokes are something that's a little bit of a put down about something. You know, they're not always praising about something. That's what jokes are. And he was a joker in some ways. And I wanted people to see that side. But even as a joker, he was brilliant. And that's what I wanted people to see. And so there's a more, kind of, three-dimensional, four-dimensional kind of image of him that they can kind of perceive. I mean, if it's offending people, there might be people who feel offended because I put the little Sean in there. Some people might be offended by the family scene or the Love song more than I'm Losing You or I Found Out. See, you never know what's going to offend people. So you can't think about it that way. My criteria of what to put in was always to do with, one, would it be something that John would be proud of. The other was, would fans have a problem with this? And I think they're going to have fun -- a lot of fun.

Yoko with Laurie Anderson and Cyndi Lauper

Q I listen to The John Lennon Anthology and review John's works and I feel so much love and so many good vibrations across the whole universe. And at the same time, I believe John's song Instant Karma or the essence of it, which was do good and good will come to you, how do you reconcile a believe in karma with John's death?

A Well, I think that karmically, that's -- the fact that John was really trying hard to be good and then he met with a kind of death that was so sudden and we never expected that to happen. It's kind of unfair because he was so young, etcetera. That karma -- that's one karma that's a kind of mystery. He even mentioned that. He said, "Why are these people, the peaceful people, peacenicks, like Gandhi, like Martin Luther King, why are they always assassinated? I don't understand this." Because, you know, their Karma is pretty good. But that's what he was saying, as you know. So that's a big -- still a big mystery to me. Likewise, why would so many people have to suffer in a concentration camp or something like that? And -- I mean, it's not karma or anything like that. What happened? Why is this injustice done? I don't know.

Q I don't either. That's why life's a mystery.

A Life is still a mystery.

Jody with Yoko Feb. 2, 2002 Photo by Andy Taub

KGSR Program Director, Jody Denberg, interviewed Yoko Ono at the Dakota in early February 2002 about her latest work, John, Paul, George and more. Click here to read the interview.

Yoko helped celebrate the B-52s 25th Anniversary in New York City in February 2002 by joining them onstage for the encore of Rock Lobster.

Christmas Cards:

Click Here to see Yoko's 1999 Christmas card.

Click here to see Yoko's Christmas Card 2000

Click here to see Yoko's Christmas Card 2001

Yoko Ono's 2002 Christmas Card