Q That was Concrete Sky. It's the first single from Beth Orton's brand new CD, "Daybreaker." I'm Jody Denberg and me and Beth are here in New York City, the Big Apple. A good place to talk about a Concrete Sky. At one point in the song, you say, "It's not coming around too soon." And then later on, you say, "It's harder than a heartbreak, too." So is a concrete sky, is it a good thing or a bad thing?
A Well, I think a concrete sky is like a state of mind, really. I don't know, I suppose, you see, I could get literal. But when I wrote it, it wasn't literal. And I think it's only this sort of year that I've realized what it was about. Is a concrete sky is just a state of mind, really, when, you know, you've put expectation on stuff or past experience. And I suppose something I've learned in the last couple of years is actually, sometimes it's harder to be -- it's harder to be in a really truly loving relationship and sustain it, than it is to be constantly getting your heart broken. You know, and we kind of take what we learn and we imprint it on where we are now. And it's like, well -- and that, to me, is a concrete sky. It's like making everything solid, very literal …

Q As a matter of fact, the sky turns up in so many songs in "Daybreaker." Is that an obsession of yours, the sky?
A Yeah, and the sea.

Q How come?
A I don't know. I just love looking at the sky. I just always wonder what's up there. What the hell is going on (laughs).

Q Another thing about "Daybreaker" is that it's a collaboration with a lot of different talented people. Concrete Sky, the song we just heard was co-written with former Smiths guitarist, Johnny Marr. And Ryan Adams was singing along with you. When and how did you meet these guys?
A I met Johnny Marr -- I'd just come off stage in LA and he was talking to a friend of mine. And I was just chatting to the two of them. I didn't know who this other guy was. And I was just -- we were talking for like a half an hour, getting on really well, having a laugh. And then I was just like, "So what do you do?" And he was like, "Oh, I play guitar." And I said, "Oh, is that right? Anyone I've heard of?" And he was like, "Well, maybe, yeah. The Smiths?" I was like, "Oh, no, you're Johnny Marr." I was like, "Okay. Okay." And then I sort of expected that embarrassment to set in and just -- but it didn't, because he's just such a sweetheart. And we just carried on. It was like blip and then we went, oh, whatever, and just carried on talking. And then it turned out we were staying in the same hotel. And he came up one evening and we just sat on my balcony drinking wine and playing guitar until like the wee hours. And it was just beautiful. It was like -- it was amazing. And I had these songs. It was like, "Oh, I've got this song." And I had Concrete Sky. I've had that knocking that for a while. And he just got very excited about that song in particular and started adding these chords underneath. And then sort of, "Oh, I know what, what about this idea for a bridge?" And then added another little bit. And then helped me with my chorus. Just kind of like galvanized it and, I don't know, made it into what it is, really.

Performing in KGSR's Music Lounge 8/12/02 (photo by Eirik Ott)

Q What about Ryan?
A Eventually, by the time I got around to actually making the record and wasn't demo-ing anymore, Johnny was off touring with Neil Finn. And I needed someone to do it. And I had heard "Heartbreaker" when it came out and adored it. And my A&R man also adores it. And we were like talking and it was, "Well, what about Ryan Adams?" And so they got in contact with him. And he came over last spring and I met him. And immediately, we were like, "Yeah, whatever" "You are…" We kind of hit it off. And then he came back in September and we went in the studio and I just expected for it to be like a couple of hours and do that. And he put the vocal down and then said, "I've got a guitar idea. I've got a piano idea" and put that down, too, and …

Q The next song we're going to hear from "Daybreaker" is called Paris Train. And you co-wrote that with your guitarist, Ted Barnes. You've pretty much had the same band from the first record, "Trailer Park," through "Central Reservation" and now on "Daybreaker." Are you a loyal person or have these guys really jelled as a band for you?
A For me, working with Ted Barnes, my guitarist, is a joy, he's just a very talented musician. But he's also a really lovely person. I find, I make the best music in stress-free situations. And when I'm in my band, it's like being with family. It's like being with my seven brothers, you know. They are like brothers now, we've known each other for so long. And the loyalty goes both ways, really. And I just really appreciate them as musicians. They're from very different worlds originally, musically. And to bring them together in one band is just fascinating.

Q I think we should get aboard the Paris Train. Do you want to go?
A I think so.

Song: Paris Train

Q What a ride. Paris Train is the song that begins Beth Orton's third and newest album, "Daybreaker." Was there really a train ride in Paris that spurred this song to life?
A It was a friend of mine who was traveling from London to Norway. And he'd go a very strange route. He'd go all -- he loved trains. And he'd take this train. And he was really pissing me off at the time and he was doing that thing. So I put the phone down and I started, (angrily) "Now you're sitting on a Paris train, laughing at your own jokes again." And is sort of just turned into this kind of apocalyptic fantasy of mine that just like the end of the world is coming kind of vibe. And then it became about something else. It was a very intense feeling when I started that song. And I think that's been captured, definitely.

Q The strings open it up. It's like a whole other world. The strings are really prominent on a lot of "Daybreaker." Was it a real string section or did you use a keyboard and samples and who arranged the strings?
A I only ever use real strings.Oliver Kraus and Becky Doe, they arranged the strings on the "Trailer Park," "Central Reservation" and on this record. And there's another guy, Adam Peters, who arranged strings on a couple of other songs, but on this one it was Ollie Crouse and Becky Doe again.

Q It's hard for me to imagine that Paris Train started as an aggressive song, because it's so dreamy and introspective. And a lot of your work is. So when people meet you, do they expect they're going to meet someone in a sundress holding a book or something? I mean, because you're a pretty outgoing --
A I am. I mean, I don't know. Everyone I know is just so multidimensional. I don't know anyone who's just like one thing or the other, and…I'm just a human being. As light as I am, I'm as dark. And maybe I'm a little lighter and maybe I'm a little darker. Maybe I'm a manic, you know, a manic person. I don't think so, but I don't know. It's hard to say, isn't it? I think when you're old, you look back and you know what you, are, were. But I'm also the sort of person who's very open to change and movement. And I'm very -- what would you say, kind of inquisitive. It's like, it doesn't matter what my childhood was. It doesn't matter what my likes and dislikes are. All that really matters is people hear the music and they respond to that. The rest is just sort of, I might as well make it up, really. I don't know.

Q Well, let's get back to the music, then. Because "Daybreaker" has such a great sense of immediacy. Did this record kind of flow out of you or was it a difficult record for you?
A It wasn't a difficult record. It was difficult, though, at times, but it always knew where it was going, kind of - mmm, yeah, it was a good record to make. It was a very positive record to make.

Q I want to play a song right now called Anywhere from the album. I don't know, I hear a little like a Burt Bacharach vibe or something similar. Were you in that kind of musical place when you wrote it?
A I had a song and we did a version of it. And then we also were doing this jam around a Shuggie Otis song called Out of My Head, which then sort of turned into Why Can't We Live Together. What's that song (sings it)? So anyway, we were just jamming around that. And we recorded these two songs. And Ben Watt, who was mixing, just wasn't into them. And I was just going, hmm. I didn't like either of them particularly myself. And I just thought, what if I sing my song Anywhere over this kind of more sort of -- I don't know, like you say, Bacharach-y kind of vibe. And everyone was like, "You're off your head." And I was like, "No, it might work." And then Ben went in and he did a bit of cutting up and fiddling around. And it really worked. It was like, yeah, I like it a lot. I like how it came together, as well.

Song: Anywhere

Q Anywhere, from Beth Orton's new album, "Daybreaker." Beth, it's a slippery record, "Daybreaker," because every time I listen to it, I hear something different. You mentioned Ben Watt, who mixed it with Andy Bradfield. And Victor Van Vugt. Victor's been with you since the first record. Tell me about the input that these guys had into shaping the record.
A Victor's input is -- he's just really good at recording the band. And the band really love him and everyone's very relaxed with one another. And he's great fun to be around. And he records things beautifully. And that is just a blessing, you know, to work with someone like that. Then, when Ben Watt got involved, I suppose it just pushed it up a notch. And I describe it as taking it into technicolor. It's like he - he also accentuated what was there and really seemed to understand the lushness. My brief to him was, "I just want beautiful, classy, lush mixes. I don't want dance beats and this, that and the other. I don't want gimmicks. I just want beautiful, beautiful music."

Q Are you able to listen back to "Daybreaker" objectively yet and…?
A No, not yet. Like, maybe not today, but the last few days, I don't even know if I like it anymore. But that's what happens, you know. And then that will pass. I know…yeah, it's a funny one, that. It's like you make something, it's everything and then suddenly, I can't even remember if I was -- I don't even remember -- I mean, it's just the strangest thing. So, not yet.

Q We talked a little bit earlier about the dreamy nature of "Daybreaker". And indulge me, because I don't really know much about your childhood. And if you want to make this part up, you can. But was there stuff growing up that made you kind of a person that wanted to escape and watch the wheels and be dreamy?
A Yeah, I liked to fantasize and dream. And I still do. I mean, I have to watch myself. I do live in a dream world.

Q And growing up contributed to that?
A Well, yeah. I just used to make it up in my head all the time. I'd just be forever drifting off. Never concentrating at school. My mum used to commute a lot between London and Norfolk, where I was born. And she used to love taking me driving. She used to drive all the time. And we'd go up to Scotland or Wales or Lake District. She loved taking off for the weekend. And I was her little compadre. And I just used to lie in the back of the car listening to -- I actually had one tape and it was the soundtrack to American Graffiti (laughs). And I used to listen to it over and over and over again.
And I could play on my own. I just always had a roomful of people, as far as I was concerned. And I thought everything would be alive. Like, I could make anything alive. I talked to things. I talked to inanimate objections a lot and shit like that.

Q And a couple of years later, you actually were in rooms full of people, because you kind of went to the dance clubs in London and met different folks. Two of them, the Chemical Brothers. You sang on their albums. And they co-produced with you the title track of "Daybreaker". How did that relationship begin?
A They'd heard stuff that I'd done with William Orbit, this song Water From a Vine Leaf. And then I worked with the Red Snapper boys. I did a couple of songs with them. And they heard that. The label I was about to sign to, Heavenly, they were about to sign, maybe, to it, too. So we met in a bar and we were chatting. It was just like, oh, yeah, these two guys. And then they used to DJ at the club that we went to. It was called the Sunday Social. And I just thought they were cool. And then one day they just asked if I'd like to sing a song for them. And I did.

Song: Daybreaker

Q That's the song that gives Beth Orton's album it's title, "Daybreaker." Was it your work with folks like the Chemical Brothers and William Orbit that gave people the chance to tag you as dance folk or whatever they were calling it at the time and how do you feel about that stuff now? That tag.
A I don't mind it as long as it's not a gimmick -- I mean, I was playing around with that. And I really, really wanted to then. It was like my ambition to mix those two things. And that also made me laugh because both of them are such kind of genres that are just full of snobbery. You've got your dance snobs and you've got your folk snobs. And I just thought it was hilarious to bring it together in a way. And also, I just thought it could be really beautiful. And I think that that has proven on songs like Alive Alone, when I did that with Tom and Ed. I mean, that, to me, is the most beautiful example of when that can really work. So that was just what I wanted to do, and, anyway, so that's how I started.
And then I found out that I actually could write songs. And I think that's when "Central Reservation" took the turn it took where I sort of moved right away from all of that stuff and just made a record that really stretched me as a songwriter and saw what I could come up with just with my band and -- the real deal. And on this record, I suppose, I've gone backwards, in a way, to go forwards in another way. It just so happened that while I was making this record, I needed to make it in a stress-free environment. I haven't been well and I needed to be healthy. And my band were people who it felt good to be around. Then when Tom and Ed called up and wanted me to sing on their record, I was like, "Yeah, I'll do it, but will you do one of mine? We'll do swapsies." And they were like, "Yeah." And then William Orbit got back in touch. And it was just like all my old people were back in touch. And in a way I feel like these three albums are a trilogy. And I feel like I'm going to be drawing a line underneath what I've done so far and maybe moving on again for the next record. four years ago and ended up -- well, that's another story. So how do I feel about being dance/folk? It's okay. It's okay.

Q I disagree a little bit with you about this being a step backwards, because even though the Chemicals are on "Daybreaker" and William has the texture of the end of the record, the overall tone of this is different --
A It is, isn't it.

Q -- than "Trailer Park." So I don't -- as a listener, I don't hear it as a step backward. You alluded to your health. You've had some stomach aliments. Are you feeling pretty good these days?
A I am, yeah.

Q That's good to know. Here's something else I've got to know, though. What is a "daybreaker"?
A Okay. A daybreaker is a word I made up when I was talking to Johnny Marr. I was trying to describe how I wanted the song to be. I was like, "You know, like a daybreaker. Like a song that's a daybreaker." And a song that's a daybreaker is, when for example, I'd been at a friends house. And we were up all night drinking and talking and him and his wife were there. We were just having the best night. And before I left in the morning, at like 6:00 a.m., they gave me a copy of "Dusty Memphis". And I went home and I put it on and I watched the sun come up, with a head, like, full of dreams and just drifting around. You just had a brilliant night with your friends and you listened to the most beautiful record you've ever heard. That is a daybreaker.

Q Your voice sounds more expressive than ever on this album. Is that just a reflection of where you're at personally or did you actually make a concerted effort to work on your range and the textures?
A It's where I'm at. (Pause).
I've always sang around the house, but I'd only sing when no one else was around. And it's just got stronger. But I've got stronger. And it's interesting, because like, people are telling me stuff about my voice. And I'm like, hmm, interesting. And then other people, friends, are telling me about how I'm being as a person. And it just correlates completely.

Q Both your parents passed on before you were 20. And so there was a melancholy that people would point out to you about "Trailer Park" and "Central Reservation."
A I explored my grieving in those records. I did. And I used to do it through relationships. I'd explore the sense of grieving for parents through my relationships, which was kind of what I was doing in my life, which is kind of what happens sometimes. You can't really help it. As much as you wish it didn't, it does.
And I feel with this record, in a way, I've let some of that go. It's like I'm now experiencing how it is to be me. Like, who I am, what I like and so on. Like, grief can kind of eat you up. And sometimes I know less than a lot of people I know. And I know a lot more than a lot of people I know. But sometimes those things that people just take for granted I haven't worked out yet, because I've been working out other stuff.

Q Do you believe in God or that everything happens for a reason?
A You know what? I think everything happens for a reason, but I don't think I believe in God. I do believe in -- I do believe in God-like thoughts or actions. I believe that it's a metaphor that people have got really out of hand. And I don't know if there was ever a man who walked on this earth, because I don't think this earth is all. It stinks of something kind of too manmade to me, all this particular way of looking at stuff. I do believe in higher powers, definitely.

Q And of course, I'm leading up to God Song, from the "Daybreaker" album. And the thing is that either you or the character whose perspective you're singing from sounds like you're praying for the strength to stop an infidelity. Emmylou Harris sings this one with you. So am I on the right track about the song; and if I am, did you explain to her where you were coming from?
A No, but I think this song is about that. It's not necessarily just an infidelity. I like to leave it open because it could be. But it may be other things as well. And maybe it's just a discussion on right and wrong.

Song: God Song

Q Beth Orton with God Song, from the new album "Daybreaker". Emmylou Harris and Ryan Adams helping you out there. A lot of times when people sing together, I don't even know if they're singing together, like in the same studio. Were you an Emmy and Ryan together?
A Basically, what it is is I recorded a version with my band that I loved. And then when I hooked up with Ryan and we started working together, we would just, "I've got this song and I've got this song." And I played him God Song because I just thought that would be amazing. So we did a version of God Song. And I ended up preferring my band's version. But I ended up chopping off the end of the one I did with Ryan and sticking it on the end of the one with the band. So then it came like that. And I was just, oh, it's beautiful.
And it just so happened that four years ago I was on tour in America and it was Lilith's tour. And one of the first dates or their first date was in Nashville. And Emmylou Harris was doing it. And she came right up to me. I'd been there five minutes. Sat down on the steps of my trailer. And she's like, "Hi, I'm Emmylou and I just love your" -- and told me she loved my record "Trailer Park" and she knew what I was doing. And she introduced me to people. And I just watched her every day and just kind of clock her and just check her out. My God, she's amazing. I want to be her when I grow up. On the last night of the gig, I gave her a necklace.
Anyway, four years down the line, this year, I went to see her play a Landmine concert in London. And I went to see her before she went on. And as an afterthought, just before I left the house, I'd taken the CD I had of God Song as it was then, the band version with me and Ryan snipped on the end kind of thing. And I walked in. And there she was. And she was like, "Oh, my God, Beth, I didn't know you were coming. Hey, look." And she was wearing my necklace.
And I just thought, uh-huh, that's something. I have to play her this song. And by the end of the night, I watched that gig and I was just like, you know what? I'm going to ask her to sing on it. So I wrote her a note and put it in an envelope and after the show I gave it to John Prine to give to her, because I was too nervous to actually do it myself. Anyway, she called me and said she loved it. So, no, we didn't sing it together. She actually was on tour with them and she did it somewhere else. But she filled me in on what it was like in the studio, that there was like Chinese lanterns hanging everywhere and it was really magical and really special. And she was just so beautiful and lovely about singing on my song and she loved it. It was great.

Q One of your first collaborators was William Orbit. A lot of people know him now because he produced Madonna's album "Ray of Light." How did that relationship begin? Because he was really pivotal in you becoming a professional musician, right?
A Yeah. He basically - a complete chance meeting. I asked him for a cigarette. I didn't know who he was. But he knew friends of mine and I was acting in this play at the time at this small French theater in London. And he came to see me in the play and was a bit taken with me, I think. And came to see that and then just was on my case, taking me out to places. And then one Christmas Eve, said, "Come in the studio. Do some spoken words." And I was like okay. And I went in and had a couple of drinks and then started singing Cry Me a River and Catch a Falling Star and stuff like that and just went on from there. He is just so encouraging. He completely encouraged me to sing and to write.

Q And all of this is kind of a long time ago now. Would you have ever imagined that you would win the Brit Award, as you did in 2000, for Best British Female?
A No. I didn't know any of this was coming. And it's beautiful. I feel blessed in a way. And there you go again, I do use religious references. I have to say about religion in my family, I come from quite a religious background. My family was all very sort of thingy, but we weren't even go into that. But I do feel blessed. I don't know. Really lucky. Really lucky.

Q Well, whether you looked to the future back then or not, Thinking About Tomorrow is the song that ends "Daybreaker." And you and William are reunited with this song. He mixed it. When you were writing it, did you think, oh, this is what I'm going to end the album with?
A No. Basically, it started bored out of my mind sitting in a hotel room with Ted in Boston. And he was just playing that riff (sings riff), the opening riff. And I just start singing along. And that's how Thinking About Tomorrow came about. And then we went in and the rest of the band all started joining in. And I had an old chorus from another song and I bopped it in there. And then you know, before you know it, you've got a song. But it's nothing better or worse than building a house or -- I mean, you know, it's all the same thing. People make out like it's not. But it is at the end of the day. But not -- and I'm not de-romanticizing it or whatever the expression is either. To me, that's just as romantic. I love a carpenter. I mean, (the) smell of wood…hmm…

Q A beautiful house is one thing to behold, but when a song touches your heart and soul, as you know as a music fan, there is a certain -- there's an ineffable thing that happens.
A I know, that's the thing for me was working with Ryan, meeting Emmylou Harris, working with her. Listening to Lucinda Williams. When I listen to their music, it touches me so deeply and makes me so happy to be alive and makes me so proud of what I do. And then I realize if I feel like this, then maybe I make other people feel like that.

Song: Thinking About Tomorrow

(End of interview)